Unfortunately for certain bona fide hits on broadcast TV, longevity in primetime doesn’t necessary lead to — or even guarantee — a major win at the Emmys. The Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men never won the Primetime award for Outstanding Comedy, nor has Grey’s Anatomy or NCIS for Outstanding Drama.
And then there is Dancing with the Stars, BBC Studios’ crown jewel that is about to launch its 34th season on ABC. Though nominations and wins in lighting, technical direction, costumes and choreography are practically routine, the show has never won for Outstanding Reality Competition. (It’s earned 11 nominations in the top category and 124 overall since 2005).
It’s a snub that continues to baffle BBC Studios, especially coming off one of the show’s best seasons ever.
“To be able to be on for 33, going on 34 seasons and to be growing our audience is very unique and very atypical,” says Ryan O’Dowd, BBC Studios’ President of Unscripted TV. “Last season our viewership was higher than it’s been in many years, and our audience engagement in particular was higher than we’ve ever seen. We had over 33 million votes in the finale, which today is unbelievably rare. The young audience has also come out in droves through TikTok. We’re just seeing a resurgence in interest in the show, and it’s been unbelievable.”
Here, Dowd — who also serves as an EP on DWTS — talks about the show’s durability, those breakout moments that crack the zeitgeist and how he “wouldn’t rule out” the day we might finally see a male duo compete for the mirror ball trophy.
DEADLINE: Does Dancing with the Stars run itself at this point or do you feel like you can’t look away for one second?
RYAN O’DOWD: I think in many ways after 33 seasons, it has become a well-oiled machine. We have an unbelievable staff, many of whom have been there from the very beginning, and we celebrated a lot of them on our 500th episode this season. So I’m the beneficiary of an amazing staff and crew who have been doing this for many, many seasons. That doesn’t mean there aren’t new challenges, and as we try to consistently reinvent and garner new viewers. We’re always trying to push the envelope. And so there’s work to be done. But as I said, I’m the beneficiary of a great team.
DEADLINE: The show is often referenced as one of the last great unscripted shows along with shows like Survivor and American Idol. Are you resigned to the notion that we’ll probably never see another big unscripted show like those ever again?
O’DOWD: On my development team, we’re trying to come up with that next big global hit. What works so well for us with Dancing and with the other formats you just mentioned is that you have a locked-in audience and there’s an affinity for the brand that has grown over decades. So it’s comforting, you know what you’re going to get. I think it is tough. There’s so much out there today, both in scripted and unscripted, that getting a brand new format to break through is pretty difficult.
DEADLINE: Do you ever wish you could do two live shows of DWTS to better accommodate west coast viewers who vote?
O’DOWD: Many years ago, I worked on a singing show called Rising Star for ABC, and it became unbelievably challenging to produce. We would essentially have the live show for the east coast and central viewers and then we would stay and produce another live result. There was a West coast save element to that format and the juice wasn’t worth squeeze, to be honest. I think we are always looking for ways in which we can include the west coast in a more meaningful way. It’s just proven to be very difficult.
DEADLINE: Where do you think all those voters came from last year?
O’DOWD: I’ve asked myself the same question. I think it’s the engagement from the younger audience. This past season was so much more meaningful than any season prior. That demo is much more inclined to be active when it comes to voting. They’ve grown up with it, they’re able to vote on their phones, they’re able to vote online. It is just part of their everyday life.
DEADLINE: Every year, there’s always a small contingent of fans who accuse the show of being fixed. Whenever you hear those complaints, what do you want to say?
O’DOWD: We take that very seriously. We have never, nor would we ever do anything to manipulate the votes. The show really needs to be credible. It needs to allow the viewers to have a voice and to really be the voice of who deserves to win. So we have never nor would we ever want to manipulate that in any way.
DEADLINE: There are always stories that pop up in the media about a past participant who is coming forward to complain about their then-partner, or there is someone like Zendaya who felt like she was robbed of a win. When these stories come out, do you ever want to say something? Or is it best to just let these people go off?
O’DOWD: I see the stories, I hear those things. I take comfort in the fact that there are going to be outliers with anything in life. When you look at the sheer volume of celebrities that we’ve booked on the show, 99.9% have actually come out to speak unbelievably positively about their experience. One of the elements that makes the show as successful as it is, is that it’s a competition. And so with competition, there’s going to be intense moments. You have these pros and celebrities in a rehearsal space, sometimes 10, 12 hours a day because they want to win. And so when you’re competing at that high of a level, there are going to be intense moments. And as I said, 99.9% of the time, it’s all welcome and it’s all in the interest of growing and learning and ultimately getting better.
DEADLINE: What is your longterm hope for the judge’s panel? Would you like to see Bruno Tonioli and Carrie Ann Inaba stay to the absolute end?
O’DOWD: I think the panel we have now is one of the best mixes of everything you could want. And I think both Bruno and Carrie Ann have been such a huge part of growing the show over the years that I’m unbelievably grateful to still have ’em on the panel today.
DEADLINE: Have some of Bruno’s antics made your toes curl?
O’DOWD: I will tell you, I have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old son, both of whom the next morning after every live show do Bruno impersonations. He’s their absolute favorite. So yes, but that’s what makes Bruno Bruno. He keeps us all on our toes. His wardrobe is always unbelievable and his antics are even more unbelievable. But that energy he brings, matches the energy of the performances. That is not easy to do. He’s a pro in his own right.
DEADLINE: There was a period of uncertainty after host Tom Bergeron left and the show went to Disney+. Was it a tense time, wondering about the future of the franchise?
O’ DOWD: I think we as a company wanted to be a great partner to ABC, to Disney. And as they were making the push for more content on Disney+ …. brands that have a preexisting audience and a robust following … they came to us and wanted Dancing to be one of those shows. We were supportive of it. If you’re not taking those risks and you’re not exploring all the ways in which you can grow the brand or grow viewership, then you’ll never know. So it was an experiment and now we’re obviously back on ABC and we’re happy to be there. The audience had been built, of course, on ABC. And so especially with the engagement on social media, there’s something about it being on a broadcast network that just lends itself more to appointment television.
DEADLINE: When it comes to casting, there are always reality stars, athletes, influencers, a Disney+ star, an oldie but goodie, and someone controversial. I want to zero in on the controversial. Why is it important to bring in the Anna Delveys, the Sean Spicers?
O’DOWD: As you went through that very well thought out ingredient list, I knew of course that you would want to delve more into the Delvey of it all! Indifference is our biggest enemy when it comes to casting. Deena Katz has cast our show from season one and has done an unbelievable job. And I think we’re always talking amongst ourselves about how to book people who are part of the ongoing zeitgeist conversation. And with Anna Delvey, yes, she was controversial, but people had an opinion. I remember many, many years ago listening to Howard Stern, and there was a promo that he used to have running that would say something to the effect of the average Howard Stern lover listens for 42 minutes a day. The average Howard Stern hater listens for an hour and 37 minutes. Why? Because they just want to know what he’s going to say next. And so I think that kind of encapsulates this idea that it doesn’t matter why people are tuning in, you’ve just got to get ’em there. And that was a bit of the logic behind the Anna Delvey of it all.
DEADLINE: When Anna first came out, the cameraman zeroed in on her ankle monitor. It was pretty brilliant.
O’DOWD: Our director Phil Heyes did an amazing job at orchestrating that, as did our showrunner Conrad Green. After the announcement was out there that we had booked Anna, of course the big talking point was how she’s going to have an ankle monitor. How were we going to do this so that it becomes a moment in the dance? I think the team did an amazing job.
DEADLINE: Everyone has had to face the new realities of Hollywood contraction. I know that the show has had to shave its budget in the past. I imagine if you stick around longer, inevitably you will likely have to cut even more.
O’DOWD: We’re living it on every one of our productions, and that’s not unique to us. I think the key for us is how we achieve budgetary cutbacks, but also deliver a great show. To the team’s credit, we’ve been doing exactly that. We don’t want to sacrifice the quality, of course. But yeah, it’s a challenge. One of the other things we’re proud of is that we are continuing to produce the show in L.A. when so many productions have moved outside of the state altogether, whether it be Atlanta or overseas.
DEADLINE: Is there anything in particular you nerd out over when watching DWTS?
O’DOWD: I love when we do things that have never been done before, like with Ilona Maher this past season became the first-ever female celebrity to lift her partner Alan Bursten. There was another moment when Whitney Carson and Danny Amendola had this very iconic leg lift. It’s almost like a slow motion leg lift that became this massive viral sensation and people started trying to do it. I love when things are being done that go beyond the scope of the broadcast and into your everyday life.
DEADLINE: You skipped over the Argentine tango featuring Derek Hough and Mark Ballas!
O’DOWD: Exactly. That’s another one.
DEADLINE: So you know what my next question will be. Will we ever get two male dancers together in the future? Can you see that happening?
O’ DOWD: It’s great to do a dance like that in general, with the motivation behind it. Many people said to me they had no idea about the origins of the tango. And I had no idea that it did begin with two males. And so you’ve got to see an unbelievable performance, right? As to your question, I would say we are constantly looking at the ways by which we can push the envelope and produce a show that reflects and represents society as a whole. So I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s something that we’re continuing to discuss.
DEADLINE: Let’s pretend that you were pitching the show today for the first time. How would you sell it?
O’DOWD: I think live television is more important today than it ever has been. You’re going to see a spectacle. With appointment television, anything can happen on any given night. Lights can go down, someone falls, an ankle monitor is revealed, you name it. Even we as producers don’t know the outcome of anything that you’re about to see. That’s exciting and gets people talking. So I would really lean into that, along with the fact that we also don’t have many pure entertainment formats that a family can watch. It’s rare today that there’s something for everyone. There’s suspense each and every season. Who’s going to be cast this year? Many people didn’t really know Ilona Maher or Stephen Nedoroscik other than bits and pieces they may have seen from the Olympics. Now they’re two of the most popular former celebrities we’ve ever had on the show. There are emotional and physical journeys. There’s athleticism, there’s chemistry that is undeniable between some of our pairings. Then you get to follow the storyline in social media the next day and throughout the week. It’s just a constant cycle of entertainment, really.
